- Your history
-
Stories
- Union Wallonne des Entreprises
- Typische beursweek...
- Transparantie leidt tot conflicten
- Theorie en praktijk
- The US goes European
- The Third Mandate and Stabilit
- The Nipponization of the US
- The next financial crisis
- The new green revolution that will feed the world
- The myth of the Chinese soft landing
- The Mouse-Trap
- The last bluefin tuna - part II
- The IMF true thoughts on the USA
- The IMF and Lady Luck
- The global famine for jobs... - update 2
- The Fed is steering with a faulty compass
- "The Fear Index"
- The father of inflation warns for... inflation
- The Copenhagen Wheel - a new biking experience
- The Chinese Copper "detour"
- The Bernanke critics are wrong ?
- The beaten generation
- Take your own destiny in hand
- Categories
- Tags
US Banks were also insolvent in the 80-ies and 90-ies
Experts almost unanimously are pushing for a nationalisation of the banking sector, especially in the US. As this decision will determine to an important degree the next decade, it might be interesting to look at some counterarguments before deciding. The case for nationalisation can besummarised:
... the government needs to plunge in, weed out the weakest banks, pour capital into the surviving banks and sell off the bad assets.
It is the basic blueprint that has proved successful, they say, in resolving major financial crises in recent years.
Japanendured a lost decade of economic stagnation in the 1990s before it adopted such measures from 2001 to 2003.
TheSwedishgovernment took tough steps in 1992 andWashingtondid so in 1987 to 1989 to overcome thesavings and loancrisis.
“The historical record shows that you have to do it eventually,” said Adam S. Posen, a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics. “Putting it off only brings more troubles and higher costs in the long run.”
Estimates about the potential lossesin the banking sector are further mushrooming, and Roubini and others have calculated that 3,6 Trln USD could be a more accurate estimate of bank losses under certain scenarios.

But the discussion is not only about these losses when a certain scenario unfolds, but also about whether you should mark your bank balance sheets at the worst possible moment, or give time to go through the valley and see some assets recover. It is all about procyclicallity, and breaking a vicious circle. Raghuram G. Rajan, a professor of finance and an economist at theUniversity of Chicagograduate business school, draws the distinction between “liquidation values” and those of calmer times, or “going concern values.” In a troubled time for banks, Mr.Rajansaid, analysts are constantly scrutinizing current and potential losses at the banks, but that is not the norm.
“If they had to sell these securities today, the losses would be far beyond their capital at this point,” he said. “But if the prices of these assets will recover over the next year or so, if they don’t have to sell at distress prices, the banks could have a new lease on life by giving them some time.”
That sort of breathing room is known as regulatory forbearance, essentially a bet by regulators that time will help heal banking troubles. It has worked before.
The point which is important to see is that there are other scenarios than nationalisation which have worked in the past to solve a banking crisis on a gigantic scale.
I
n the 1980s, during the height of the Latin American debt crisis, the total risk to the nine money-center banks in New York was estimated at more than three times the capital of those banks.The regulators, analysts say, did not force the banks to value those loans at the fire-sale prices of the moment, helping to avert a disaster in the banking system.
James Surowiecki, the author of the "wisdom of crowds" and columnist for the New Yorker writes:
We need to be careful about extrapolating from history, particularly when the historical record is short. That’s one reason why I’m not convinced that nationalizing most of our major banks is the best solution to our current financial problems.
The case of nationalisation if often supported by the Swedish exemple. But this was very different from the current situation:
* the economy was growing
* it was a local problem
Let’s be honest. When the historical record of successful nationalization in response to a banking crisis consists of one or two examples (Sweden and perhaps Japan), thenthe historical record doesn’t prove anything, because the sample size is way too small to draw any meaningful conclusions.The best we can say is that in one particular case, a particular strategy worked. That’s a piece of evidence in favor of nationalization, but there’s no reasonable way to say it proves, or even makes it likely, that nationalization is the right approach.
Surowiecki points to the Eighties and other banking crises, and the fact that the financial system recovered without nationalisation and with lower costs than in the latter strategy. Surowiecki argues that the Eighties in the US have shown that according to mainstream economic thinking...
...the fact that those banks were not nationalized or forced into receivership should have created “more troubles and higher costs” down the road, propelling the U.S. economy into a “Lost Decade” like the one Japan suffered through in the nineteen-nineties.But none of those things happened: those banks recovered on their own, and most became quite healthy, while the U.S. economy grew briskly for most of the nineteen-eighties. Now, today’s banking problems are obviously not the same as the early nineteen-eighties. But, in a way, that’s the point: different situations require different solutions, and there simply aren’t enough historical examples to make it obvious which solution is best.(Nor is economic theory of much use in this situation, since there’s no convincing theoretical model explaining why nationalization is preferable, either.)
The point therefore is that economists should be humble.There is not a textbook answer to the current banking crisis. There is not one sure strategy for solving such a huge crisis. There is certainly not a painless solution. But saying that nationalisation is the only possible solution is not correct.
Nationalization may be, after analyzing all the costs and benefits, the best strategy. But that’s not because history tells us that it is.
What I want to underline is that such important decisions should be very well analysed, takkng into account a dynamic scenario, not a static analysis. Also the selffeeding circle of mark to market and recapitalisations (with important dilutve effects for shareholders) and its economic effects should be considered. Nationalisation is therefore one of the options, and might still be the best after reflection. But history shows that other strategies have been pursued successfully.
29 Comments
-
Jan Sonck
On 19 Feb, 2009
Mooie post, die aantoont dat tweehandige economen zin hebben.
Sommigen geven de illusie dat er maar een mogelijk antwoord is voor bepaalde economische problemen, wat dus niet juist is.
Economisch extremisme kunnen we missen na een periode van financieel extremisme. -
Frank
On 19 Feb, 2009
It's ridiculous to think that nationalising insolvent banks is the solution to this problem. There's no easy way out of this problem:
1. This crisis is of another magnitude than the previous banking crises. Japan and Sweden (partly) recovered because their banking crises were in the middle of the greastest credit boom on planet earth. It's rather easy to solve a crisis when credit and the economy is booming. It's a disaster when the boom goes bust.
2. This problem is much, much, much, much, much bigger and it is global.
3. There is not a single sign in sight that prices are at a bottom. Houseprices are still declining, are still historically overvalued compared to middle class wages and there is still a huge overcapacity in real estate worldwide. Only now the economy is collapsing. Only now people start losing their job. The number of people becoming insolvent is only starting to grow. Commercial real estate is only starting to default. Companies are only starting to default. These guys are talking about a recovery in prices of securitised debt and haven't thought a single second about what happens when we are still far away from the bottom in real estate. If history is a good example, one should know that if prices overshoot to the upside in a boom, they tend to overshoot to the downside in the bust.
4. Experts all over the world are continuing to alter their predictions of possible banking losses to the downside. It's only six months ago that Roubini predicted a loss of 1 trillion $. Then 1.6, then 2, now 3.6 trillion $. That tells me that the problem is worsening, not improving. That said, I have enormously much respect for Roubini. He's one of the few guys that saw this thing coming and warned the banking industry years ahead. "Smart" as they are, they did'nt listen.
5. It is stupid to look in history for answers to this problem. We had a unprecedented credit boom for 30 years. The BIGGEST creditboom ever on this planet. When a unprecedented boom goes bust you get a ... unprecedented bust. Never in history we had such a problem. Never in history we have a example of a possible good solution to this unprecedented problem.
6. Banks themselves have no idea how much losses they have. Their balance sheet is a big black whole with no bottom in sight. They hide their garbage in tier3 assets. They cook their books every way they can. There has'nt been more fraud and deceit on balance sheets of banks than today. If they can't figure out their losses, how in the hell is government to.
7. “If they had to sell these securities today, the losses would be far beyond their capital at this point,” he said. “But if the prices of these assets will recover over the next year or so, if they don’t have to sell at distress prices, the banks could have a new lease on life by giving them some time.”
That's the most ridiculous statement I ever read. If the losses are far beyond their capital than they are bankrupt and insolvent. Today! Bankrupt today = bankrupt tomorow. They are dreaming about a recover in prices, less distress. What if the distress is only beginning. What if we are far from a bottom? We had a 30 year credit boom. Do you really think the bust is only going to last one year???
8. If we are going to use Japan as an example of solving this crisis then I wish you all good luck. They started their crisis in the late eighties. 20 years later they are back were they started. In 1989, before their problems, the Nikkei index was 37000 points. Now, 20 years later it's at 7500. That sure is the way to go.
9. Taking the problems away from the balance sheets of the banks and putting them on the balance sheets of the governments is'nt solving anything. Somebody has to pay the bill or take the pain. In this case it's going to be the taxpayer through higher taxes and the saver through monetary inflation. That is the worst of capitalism (privatising profits) combined with the worst of socialism (socialising losses). Governments are only a few steps away from riots. If people first lose their savings, job, house, ..., are then taxed all over their ears, and suddenly realize they have nothing to loose, they loose it.
We are in a serious mess. There is no easy way out. As long as our leaders don't realize how serious this is and what the cause is, we are miles away from sound solutions. We are in this mess precisely because consumers spent more than every cent they had. Now our leaders want everybody to spend more. If they don't spend, then government wants to spend on their behalf. Spending got us into this mess so spending is not going to get us out of it! What happens when the stimulus is worked out or taken away? Somehow these keynesian idiots believe in a free lunch forever where spending feeds on itself and we all live happily ever after! It's not going to work, it never has! And as soon as the bridges are fixed, the roofes are repaired, the schools are renovated and nothing happens, the keynesian clowns will be back begging for more taxpayer money to spend. Where does it stop???
People have to start saving and stop spending. They have to produce instead of consume. Consumption needs to fall back to sustainable levels. Credit needs to fall back to sustainable levels. We have to live within our means. Prices have to drop to sustainable and affordable levels. Banks need to clean up their mess. Gevernments need to clean up their mess. It's going to be very hard for a while, but it's much better than 2 lost decades like in Japan. Governments have put their faith in ridiculous theories that have failed time and time again. Where is their common sense? -
frederic
On 19 Feb, 2009
How can everybody save money if everybody needs tot stop spending ?
How to save money and pay your debts if nowbody wants your services/knowledge/products because they are also saving.
contradiction ?
We need to stop spending on the wrong products (junk goods as you said) and start spending on the durable products.
In the west we need to focus more on export(to clean up ouw balance), in the east focus more on services (to solve the enviromental en demographic problems) .
Overpriced homes, depending on the regions and depending on your vision. In the US houses are definitly underpriced at this moment !!
125K for a big house on 1000 square meters is cheap.
If the belgium market would fal back for 10-15% it would be in balance with the middle class and lower income.
Problem is many wanted a mortgage debt with quotity (quotiteit in Engels?) 100% or more.
My vision is buying a house with quotity under 100% and paying extra costs (registeringcosts) with capital of your own.
Or do the Maya's predict the end of the world correctly ? According to there callender the world ends in 2012. -
Luk
On 19 Feb, 2009
To Frederic,
I disagree with you on the housing housing market in the USA. Sure, housing prices have come down a lot. But it's the same with the median household income in the USA, as the following chart shows.
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/existing-home-prices-vs-median-income.png
Also, there is no single sign of a bottom in the housing market.
However, I agree with you on the Belgium real estate market. I expect a healthy correction of >10% (inflation adjusted). In my vision, a quotity of under 80% should be obligated.
I bet that the prediction of the Maya's is too optimistic according to Frank :-P. -
Marty
On 19 Feb, 2009
@Frank
Who said nationalising banks is the easy way out ? In all of your 9 points, although non of them incorrect, I do not see a single reason why nationalising banks is a bad idea. Most people who saw this meltdown coming are in favour of nationalisation.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/29103328?ref=patrick.net
I am not sure this is going to be the best option. But what is the alternative. The banks have been playing "hedgefund" for a while now and will not stop doing this just because of regulation.
For every regulator banks employ 10 brainy guys paid 10 times as much trying to find holes in the regulations. And trust me they will succeed.
In essence don't we just want banks to asses the risk on loans and make money on the intrest margin ? Is all the rest not hedgefund stuff ?
If "they" have to produce instead of consume. Who is going to consume what "they" produce. -
frederic
On 19 Feb, 2009
@Luc,
Interesting graph.
ik do want to point something out.
Houses will be more expensive a ratio to household income.
The reason is because China is building and prices of raw materials rased dramaticly (not at this moment, crisis).
The demand for materials like wood, cement, steel, stones, sand, copper, glass... has increased dramaticly but the source is still the same.
This is why houses will be more expensive in the future .
Offcourse the situation where we are in right now isn't realy a reference. -
Frank
On 19 Feb, 2009
@Marty
1. Taking away the problem from the banks and putting it on the back of the people is not solving anything. It is simply transfering the problem to another party. Socialising the losses is not equal to paying them. Somebody has to pay. The problem is only solved by paying, by production, not transfering. I'm not smart enough to know whether nationalising banks is a good or bad solution. I am smart enough to know that it is not going to solve the problem.
2. We have to live within our means. Consumption is not going to zero, but it has to go to sustainable levels. If you produce more then there is consumption, prices fall, consumption increases again, ... The market is not going to allow overproduction without pricefalls. So we all have to live within our means, produce within our means and consume within our means. Central banks have to stop intervening and blowing up bubbles like the past 20 years. Let the market do it's thing and find a balance.
@everybody
I never predicted the end of the world. I do predict however that only 1 in a 1000 people realises what this crisis is about and what risks are at stake now. Central banks and governments only have a few months left now to prevent a currency crisis and a total disaster. If you think that disaster can not happen you better start studying history. -
Marty
On 19 Feb, 2009
@Franck
Whatever is done pay we will !
Nationalisation is not going to prevent the economic crisis we are heading for but it might prevent the banks from making a bigger mess and calm things down. It could make credit available for companies so we can start investing and producing again.
I think we have seen that the market does not always behave according to the the simple rules the market guru's like to propagate. Take what happened with Unilever and Delhaize. Why were Unilever and or Delhaize (who knows what really happend ?) causing an increase in their prices in a shrinking market ? -
kettos
On 19 Feb, 2009
Politicians in general just blew it again like usual. They try to let us believe that we need them to solve our problems while in fact they are the main reason these problems occurred. If they would stop bailing everybody out like they did with LTMC in the nineties we wouldn't be in such a huge mess. The market would have learned they can't leverage to much and model-based investing isn't the holy grail. Sure free markets cause bubbles but not so big ones we have had just now. When I hear people say that the free market failed and we need stronger regulation I don't buy it. Politicians think that they can solve everything with rules. I think they are just a burden on society. They're with way too many, get paid too much and their actions often make things worse. And now we will give the banks in their hands too? God save us all for the incompetence with which they will govern them...
-
Socworkepon
On 10 Jul, 2009
This exert intention picture how simulated figures can be created by rolling dice to beget accidental numbers. The details you fabricate in this exercise determination be used in all of the succeeding instructions simulation exercises. Contemplate approximately some test or evaluation that you clout like to with on a society of individuals. You administer the analysis and conform to a choose numerical vocal score in the course of each person. This condition might be the slew of questions the man answered correctly or the common of their ratings on a fix of feeling items, or something like that, depending on what you are tough to measure.
-
ordifuffetuiz
On 15 Sep, 2009
Are you kidding me!!??? Swine FLU??? In sommer in heat? Is it regular possible? I am from Cali and I nervous! Slow flourishing!
-
Clistilla
On 15 Sep, 2009
Are you kidding me!!??? Swine FLU??? In sommer in heat? Is it regular possible? I am from Cali and I nervous! Stay healthy!
-
InvestcoUs
On 20 Sep, 2009
Our company is a result of successful work of 10 people who work on the investment businesses. We have linked our endeavour so we could invest more productively. Our main goals is to raise our investment budget for obtaining more profit for us and our investors with as little risk involved as possible. This program is a real investment, which returns are all generated from real-life investments. The money you invest is re-invested for you and it is your invested money that will bring you the big returns.
http://investco.us -
weezerik
On 2 Oct, 2009
So nice information. Thx u a lot. I need to add it to my collection
-
Zews
On 17 Oct, 2009
A friend advised me this blog and I am very grateful to him for that, really quality made and on.
-
Fierce
On 29 Oct, 2009
Competently make a blog, and information picked up by tematike.Avtor fellow!
-
proniamorrole
On 26 Jan, 2010
[url=http://moving-la-review.info ]reliable mover sylmar [/url] warehouse moving companies acton , local movers artesia [url=http://moving-co-la.info ]licensed moving service garden grove [/url] professional move gardena , trusted move el segundo , trusted mover glendale , and [url=http://top10-moving.info ]quote mover pomona [/url] licensed moving services chatsworth , cheap moving company rancho palos verdes [url=http://top10-moving.info ]moving deal movers westlake village [/url] office moving company azusa , fast moving services covina , warehouse movers alhambra
-
aneLtehearp
On 6 Apr, 2010
I'm surfing internet till I found your website. I'll visit you again.
Anyway, visit me for sometime ^_^
HDTV Buyer Guide -
ilikedoti
On 11 Apr, 2010
Очень полезный материал, давно искал! Добавлю сайт в закладки!
-
remseman
On 20 Apr, 2010
Увадаемый автор, благодарю Вас за ценный материал, добавлю Ваш сайт в закладки!
-
Jaff_J
On 21 Apr, 2010
Millions of MP3!!Listen,download Music here http://all-music.8k.com
-
copout
On 12 May, 2010
Is very interesting for me, ty so much. This site is very good.
-
avtorimset
On 24 May, 2010
На выбранной точке стройматериалов с обеспечением моментальной подачи, осуществляется розничная продажа шпаклевки knauf. Наличествование необходимых коммерческих бумаг обуславливают безупречное качество шпаклевки knauf. Так же сформирован довольно удобный момент, на данный момент доступна оплата шпаклевки knauf электронными деньгами.
-
buywindowsoooon
On 28 May, 2010
windows 7, windows xp and office software. cheap price, electronic delivery. Save money and time, order windows or office to
-
Goniensuems
On 30 Jun, 2010
Looking to purchase a new vehicle?? Want to save a lot of $$$ and not get screwed over by the dealer?? Then you need to go to the website below and learn how to negotiate with the dealer. You will recieve a FREE copy of the "Dealer Negotiation Secrets and Tips" eBook. This eBook was formulated by 3 men all with 20+ years of experience auto sales. It is guaranteed to save you anywhere from $2,500 to $5,000 or in some cases even more on the purchase of your new vehicle, and it is completely FREE!! Come take a look today and SAVE!! [url=http://www.newacuraincentives.com/freebook.html]Car Shop eBook
-
avtospecc
On 6 Jul, 2010
Генератор - услуга, которая выполняется в сети передовых техсервисов вследствие полноценной оснащенности, а также тому, что большой список работ проводят грамотные специалисты, создается бесперебойная работа подвергшихся ремонту механизмов и узлов, имеют место огромные успехи по качеству, при этом применяются как оригинальные, так и аналоговые запчасти. После завершения всех обозначенных услуг владельцам авто предоставляется гарантия качества.
-
PralsarfPar
On 13 Oct, 2010
Ahoy members, long time lurker first time poster here
delighted to be a member, and I look forward to begin getting more active here
In the mean time take a look at my page http://blogs.mybuzzdeal.com/articlesubmissiondirectory/?p=4 -
BYETxxxus
On 16 Dec, 2010
Hack again?!
-
Choondide
On 21 Dec, 2010
Pentru copil, jocul presupune de cele mai multe ori, pe lânga consumul nervos chiar ?i la cele mai simple jocuri, ?i efort fizic, spre deosebire de persoanele adulte unde acesta lipse?te cu des?vâr?ire. http://www.jocuri-avioane.comVom vedea foarte des copii jucându-se fotbal, sau plimbându-se cu bicicleta, ?i nu jucând table sau ?ah pe o banc? dintr-un loc lini?tit a?a cum fac de obicei adul?ii.


















